pvp palies

[mandzuria]

so lets see what all healers have
holy palies heals:
Flash of Light Cast
Holy Light Cast
Holy Shock instant
3 only!

Priest holy
Flash heal cast
Greater hea lcast
Binding heal cast
Penace channel
Holy nova instant
PoM instant
CoH instant
Renew instant hot
ok, here are also aoe and hots

Shaman resto
L. healing wave cast
Healing wave cast
Chain heal cast
Riptide Instant hot
Earth shield Instant
instants and hots too

Druid resto
Nourish cast
Healing touch cast
Regrowth cast + hot
Wild growth instant
Tranquility channel
Lifebloom instant
Rejuvenation instant
hots and instants

and now lets see a damage spells:
priest
Smite
Holy fire
sw: pain
Mind blast
sw: death

shaman
Lightning bolt
Chain lightning-aoe
4 shocks
Lava burst

druid
Wrath
Moonfire
Starfire
All cat and bear atacks

paladin
Judgment 800dmg=80dps cd 10 sec
Consecration 150 dps noone stay in it
Exorcism in pve only
Holy shock used as a heal cause other heals cc-able
Mele 100dmg
so: no dmg

and what with cc?

shamies got root/slow totems and 10 sec hex

priests got low cd fear, mc with no cd, constant cc =~20sec

druids roots and cyclon, bear and cat charges and stuns constant 25+ sec cc

paladins - 6 sec stun


You can say that we have bubble... but it is only 12 sec and is worth as much as priests power word shield, shamans grounding and tremoor totems and druids bead form cds

for all mana users : Mana burn with no cd , 10 sec burn 16k pvp geared mana

Reasuming in pvp:
Druids can instant hot dps than hold oposite healer in cc till his dps dont kill him
Priests can instant hot dps put absorb shield than hold other healer in cc till his dps dont kill him or burn oposit healer mana when his dsp is killing oposite one
Shamans can earth shield and riptide dps than help killing all the time holding totems that root, slow, grounding etc.
Paladins cannot cc, can heal once every 6 sec with holy shock cause other heals will be cced and can heal 12 sec on bubble during arena

Druid, priest and shaman can do damage if need but paladins can’t

Summ: dru can heal cc and dps at the same time, priest too, shaman too, and paladin can pray that dps come and help him
/bow to all paladins and their dpses with high rating on arenas

and once I saw: “bring skill, no class to arena” didnt work to holy palies

so Blizz, think about paladin skills to make dmg. Theres a world pvp too and pvp holy pala can make max 800-900 dps on an afk target, on target that is moving and fighting can do about 300 dps or even less
so, paladins (holy ofc) dps isnt enough over:
druid lifebloom and dru can dps u
shamans earth shield and shammy dps u
priests bubble and priest dps u
warlocks haunt (dispell or not it will heal lock) and lock dps u and fear u
death knight blood auras, pet sacrafices, death strikes and rune taps
hunters, they run away and pet kill u on slow and u cannot slow him
mages shields are nearly imposible to destroy and cs u
rogues poisons and burst, cs>muti>muti>ks> muti>muti> my bubble> vanish and start without bubble= dead
warriors... bubble > destroy it and charge, it takes to cast flash only, hl will be interupted

holy palies are able to dmg a half of dpser hp before die, and I know that we are “healers” but other healers can dps well and dont have to w8 for dps to come and help kill, and heal only

note that im writing about good pvp players with good gear not pve or noobies with a half of hp they should have, not about greenies or blues, and not about palies gimps, just a well playing pally makeing all best and using cd when should are not able to face most of dps (pvp)
note also that holy palies “dps” skills cost tons of mana
as a some time ago mages get iceblock from trainer in all speces (removed from frost talent tree) why holy palies didnt have repetence?
So now palies are easy to cc all the time, easy to cs or silence so make no heal, dont do dps but... we got plates so.. what with that plates?
Cyclone is like a stun without cd, fears and mc’s same
Ideas? Most of You will write that with those propositions palies will be op but we’ll see
>>>1. A bit of cc – repetence from trainer
>>>2. A bit of dmg – 1,5 sec direct dmg spell with no cd, dmg= 100% spell power (pvp it makes about 2k) (designed as a priests smite)(other school of magic than holy so it wont be easy to cs kill pala)
>>>3. A bit of heal, pasive or instant – some pasive or instant hot, f.e. talented to dmg holy shock crit will hot caster with 50% dmg done over 5 sec

Much? Think not look other healers spells
Fair to other? Think yes

And some talents in holy...
Puryfying power... reduces exorcism cd (useles)
Pure heart duration of poisons etc –30% useles when all the time damaged

Some skills in holy...
Divine plea not able to heal with it against dpses with other lowering heal debufs (25% heals or less), should be redesigned to not to scale with mortal strike debufs etc.

And 1 question. Why all SPELS, theire dmg are much much waeker in holy (heal but SPELL tree) than retri (MELE tree). Ret= mele spells, I know. But why nerf spell power on pure spells like judgment, consecration, exorcism etc.
F.e. pure spell not mele:
judgement dmg =0.1 sp + 0.1ap
ap=~2sp
so im my opnion it should look like this judgement dmg=0.2sp + 0.1ap
Balance, Blizz, there are in all posts words “balance”
Ohh, nearly forget, for all mana users, not only pala, shouldn’t there be cd on mana burn? +haste geared disci pri need few sec to burn it.
I’m not writeing it cause I want to be op, iI just wart to have chance in pvp with other healers and with dpses


Watch palies dueals (holy) they nearly cant dps any mages or priests absorb shields
Ask dps designers if pala is easiest to kill in all healers (dk, mages, rogue, warr, other)
Ask any holy pvp pala.
Watch some all healers cc (not pala) watch some healers dmg (pala dont have) anr rep for those 3 points up

So? Plz someone from blizz can rep?

[myidisinvalid]

Quote: Originally Posted by mandzuria

so lets see what all healers have
holy palies heals:
Flash of Light Cast
Holy Light Cast
Holy Shock instant
3 only!

Priest holy
Flash heal cast
Greater hea lcast
Binding heal cast
Penace channel
Holy nova instant
PoM instant
CoH instant
Renew instant hot
ok, here are also aoe and hots

Shaman resto
L. healing wave cast
Healing wave cast
Chain heal cast
Riptide Instant hot
Earth shield Instant
instants and hots too

Druid resto
Nourish cast
Healing touch cast
Regrowth cast + hot
Wild growth instant
Tranquility channel
Lifebloom instant
Rejuvenation instant
hots and instants

and now lets see a damage spells:
priest
Smite
Holy fire
sw: pain
Mind blast
sw: death

shaman
Lightning bolt
Chain lightning-aoe
4 shocks
Lava burst

druid
Wrath
Moonfire
Starfire
All cat and bear atacks

paladin
Judgment 800dmg=80dps cd 10 sec
Consecration 150 dps noone stay in it
Exorcism in pve only
Holy shock used as a heal cause other heals cc-able
Mele 100dmg
so: no dmg

and what with cc?

shamies got root/slow totems and 10 sec hex

priests got low cd fear, mc with no cd, constant cc =~20sec

druids roots and cyclon, bear and cat charges and stuns constant 25+ sec cc

paladins - 6 sec stun


You can say that we have bubble... but it is only 12 sec and is worth as much as priests power word shield, shamans grounding and tremoor totems and druids bead form cds

for all mana users : Mana burn with no cd , 10 sec burn 16k pvp geared mana

Reasuming in pvp:
Druids can instant hot dps than hold oposite healer in cc till his dps dont kill him
Priests can instant hot dps put absorb shield than hold other healer in cc till his dps dont kill him or burn oposit healer mana when his dsp is killing oposite one
Shamans can earth shield and riptide dps than help killing all the time holding totems that root, slow, grounding etc.
Paladins cannot cc, can heal once every 6 sec with holy shock cause other heals will be cced and can heal 12 sec on bubble during arena

Druid, priest and shaman can do damage if need but paladins can’t

Summ: dru can heal cc and dps at the same time, priest too, shaman too, and paladin can pray that dps come and help him
/bow to all paladins and their dpses with high rating on arenas

and once I saw: “bring skill, no class to arena” didnt work to holy palies

so Blizz, think about paladin skills to make dmg. Theres a world pvp too and pvp holy pala can make max 800-900 dps on an afk target, on target that is moving and fighting can do about 300 dps or even less
so, paladins (holy ofc) dps isnt enough over:
druid lifebloom and dru can dps u
shamans earth shield and shammy dps u
priests bubble and priest dps u
warlocks haunt (dispell or not it will heal lock) and lock dps u and fear u
death knight blood auras, pet sacrafices, death strikes and rune taps
hunters, they run away and pet kill u on slow and u cannot slow him
mages shields are nearly imposible to destroy and cs u
rogues poisons and burst, cs>muti>muti>ks> muti>muti> my bubble> vanish and start without bubble= dead
warriors... bubble > destroy it and charge, it takes to cast flash only, hl will be interupted

holy palies are able to dmg a half of dpser hp before die, and I know that we are “healers” but other healers can dps well and dont have to w8 for dps to come and help kill, and heal only

note that im writing about good pvp players with good gear not pve or noobies with a half of hp they should have, not about greenies or blues, and not about palies gimps, just a well playing pally makeing all best and using cd when should are not able to face most of dps (pvp)
note also that holy palies “dps” skills cost tons of mana
as a some time ago mages get iceblock from trainer in all speces (removed from frost talent tree) why holy palies didnt have repetence?
So now palies are easy to cc all the time, easy to cs or silence so make no heal, dont do dps but... we got plates so.. what with that plates?
Cyclone is like a stun without cd, fears and mc’s same
Ideas? Most of You will write that with those propositions palies will be op but we’ll see
>>>1. A bit of cc – repetence from trainer
>>>2. A bit of dmg – 1,5 sec direct dmg spell with no cd, dmg= 100% spell power (pvp it makes about 2k) (designed as a priests smite)(other school of magic than holy so it wont be easy to cs kill pala)
>>>3. A bit of heal, pasive or instant – some pasive or instant hot, f.e. talented to dmg holy shock crit will hot caster with 50% dmg done over 5 sec

Much? Think not look other healers spells
Fair to other? Think yes

And some talents in holy...
Puryfying power... reduces exorcism cd (useles)
Pure heart duration of poisons etc –30% useles when all the time damaged

Some skills in holy...
Divine plea not able to heal with it against dpses with other lowering heal debufs (25% heals or less), should be redesigned to not to scale with mortal strike debufs etc.

And 1 question. Why all SPELS, theire dmg are much much waeker in holy (heal but SPELL tree) than retri (MELE tree). Ret= mele spells, I know. But why nerf spell power on pure spells like judgment, consecration, exorcism etc.
F.e. pure spell not mele:
judgement dmg =0.1 sp + 0.1ap
ap=~2sp
so im my opnion it should look like this judgement dmg=0.2sp + 0.1ap
Balance, Blizz, there are in all posts words “balance”
Ohh, nearly forget, for all mana users, not only pala, shouldn’t there be cd on mana burn? +haste geared disci pri need few sec to burn it.
I’m not writeing it cause I want to be op, iI just wart to have chance in pvp with other healers and with dpses


Watch palies dueals (holy) they nearly cant dps any mages or priests absorb shields
Ask dps designers if pala is easiest to kill in all healers (dk, mages, rogue, warr, other)
Ask any holy pvp pala.
Watch some all healers cc (not pala) watch some healers dmg (pala dont have) anr rep for those 3 points up

So? Plz someone from blizz can rep?

You sir are fail. If you can't figure out whats wrong with your post I suggest you take another read.

[mandzuria]

So maybe You will write whats wrong there? there are no mistakes.
Show me, prove that there are mistakes.
?
?
?

[Ambience 327]

Your first mistake is expecting someone from Blizzard to respond to a post on a non-blizzard-run forum. This site is run by fans, not Blizzard.

[Tekiros]

Also for PvP, Holy Paladin and DK is the top 2v2 atm.

[sagevallant]

Paladins own other healers simply bc they're so damn hard to kill. Damage is irrelevant; I doubt the healer has an opportunity to do much damage while keeping himself and his partner alive. Bubble is the all-purpose problem solver; any CC, any Damage, all negated. Bubble is pvp trinket +1. And you still have another CC breaker by bringing your trinket.

6s stun should be all the time your burst partner needs to down a priest.

Resto shams only have root, not snare. Root is a deep elem talent.

Stun > Cyclone because you can kill a stunned target.

All shaman shocks are on one cd. And the 4th one, windshock, does no damage. The others max out at about 4-5k damage on a crit for an Elemental shaman, to say nothing of a resto. Their casting dps is also pretty lame without the talents to buff it.

The only way to take out a healer in pvp is all-out burst. Burst doesn't work on paladins. They can bubble out of magic damage, and have plate & shield to minimize melee damage. Holy Paladin is the pvp tank.

[mandzuria]

mate...
maybe i made some mistakes in my post
few spells that shouldnt be there, 1-2 at a class
but
have You ever been playing a holy paly or just telling stories...
6sec stun (4 with gems, talents etc) > 12sec cyclone <--- biggest fail i've ever seen. true is that it is possible to kill someone on stun, but there is 100% to kill a dps during 12 sec of cyclone. more if dru is cycloning in good rotation > heal>dps>heal>dps>heal>dps then it is not possible to heal for holy pala.
do u know how much armor damage reduction do palies have than fe shamies?
5-6 ? it s a big LOL
palies are cc breakers? cause of bubble? worst cc , a cyclone isnt dispelable about bubble, do You know that? LOL on You! what You can say about druids
etc
etc
etc

but not that was most importnant
most importnant was the case that palies arent even able to over dps crapy priests and mages bubles, locks haunts etc...
maybe other healers dont have big dps but they are able to dps it! and palies just a heal.

Noone coment what would help to palies and all coment 2-3 mistakes i made in 2-3 spells...2-3 on 40 ??

[Zenrei]

Wait, did you count Aura Mastery? That move makes you immune to Interrupt and Silence effects for 10 seconds. That's 3 Holy Lights and a Holy Shock, IF someone is on you that can interrupt and Silence. Did I mention that it's the ONLY move of it's kind, outside of the immunity spells? You have the craziest cleansing abilities, not only cleansing quickly, but you have a 30% chance to increase resistances to poisons, diseases, and magic effects by 100%. Poisons cannot stay on the you long enough to slow down your heals (Pure of Heart, reduces duration of Curse, Poison, and Disease effects by 30%), and your healing spells get more crit than any other caster. 12% chance for attacks to do half damage to you isn't bad either.

Plus the fact that you're wearing Plate, you have a bubble you can give to another person that resists melee, which effective shuts down Warriors/Rogues while you get to heal them without resistance. Oh, and by the way, it removes physical effects (Mortal Strike). Getting the hint? They can't attack, but it lets you get heals off, especially if Mortal Strike is kicking your ass.

I'm not even going to mention the +20% damage/healing buff that you get untalented with only a 3 min CD. Last time I checked my druid/priest/shaman, I didn't have an ability that even came close to that burst. I don't think I need to even mention this, but Sacred Shield. Sacred Shield. Wow, you give someone a bubble every time they get hit for 30 seconds and when it happens you get +50% crit.

Just as much as you came up with the mess you call a list of things that other healers have over Paladins, I could do almost the same. I mean, really? Did you get your ass handed to you so hard you blamed your class? It's okay, I did the same thing to my priest in vanilla WoW (but back then it was true...I got two-shotted through my bubble by a Hunter's Aimed Shot/Arcane Shot, BEFORE Arcane Shot got buffed).

But seriously man, each class has something special to bring to the table. You just have to find it, train it, and perfect it. Paladins practically OWN this expansion. Find out what the other Holy Paladins are and do what they're doing, because you've got a lot of shit going for you, PvP-wise.

Other things I forgot to mention...

-30% reduced duration to Fear and Disorient (Sap, Gouge, etc)
-30% reduced duration to Stun in Prot tree (Tier 2)
-NONE OF YOUR HEALS CAN BE DISPELLED (Sacred Shield can be, but it has 30% resistance to dispel and either way you're still healing)
-6 second stun. Really? REALLY? That can be counted as CC, that's ridiculous. Ret Pallies beat players in those 6 seconds.

Come on, man. Anyone can pull up the Holy tree in Wowhead and see that you have a lot more than you think you do.

If you don't want your Holy Paladin, I'll be glad to take him off your hands.

[mandzuria]

Zenrei, with all respect of time that u spent looking at pally talent trees that was most funny post ive ever seen. tell me plz, have u ever played a paladin?
did u saw a pvp gear? did u saw a builds possible to play? u r wrong in nearly all points of ur coment.

aura mastery... yea, dont give any imunity to any kind of cc, easy dispelable, very easy

not 12 % chance to take 50% less dmg but 10%

-30% to duration of poisons etc, and cleanising it.... when a rogue is f.. sry hiting u 3k dps .... You dont have time to dispell all and ...they got talent that giveem a big chance not o be dispelled yes?

plates vs mails is only 6% mele dmg reduction

sacred shield? do u know how much dmg it absorb? no? ask some palies about it and priest about their pw:shield

many pvp items dont have a crit, but makeing a build that have all u wrote tooks about 130 lvls

so m8...

[Zenrei]

I'm not going to argue with someone who hates his class, so I'm just going to link what you need to see.

http://www.arenajunkies.com/talents/

I'm sick of people complaining about one or two things that aren't exactly like someone else's class. Like I said, find your niche, train it, perfect it. I have a Paladin, I've played Holy, and it's not hard to play around, kite, and stun your way through the fights. I'm not perfect, but I'm not rolled over.

It's people like you that complain that your Crusader strike lost 10 dps and whine.

[Zzzzz]

Holy paladin have
2.7% in 2v2 2200 above.
4.6% in 3v3 2200 above.
6.5% in 5v5 2200 above.

So they are fine, not great but fine.

Date: June 24 2009
source: http://www.realmhistory.net/arena-st...breakdown.html

[Jarrus]

Well if specced correctly Holy pala's have pritty much unlimited mana and they wear plate....very anoying.....

on the plus side if you were on the same side as the holy pala then it wouldn't be a problem...:P